G.H. Also, can whomever writes these articles stop referring to RN ships as the HMS Ark Royal? H. Day, RN), HMS Enchantress (Lt.Cdr. the boiler explosion that had prompted bulwarks retirement had never been even surveyed. They were escorted by the light cruiser HMS Aurora, destroyer HMS Wivern, corvettes HMS Gardenia, HMS Vetch and the motor launch HMS HDML 1139. From Malta departed the bombardment / cover force which was made up of the light cruisers HMS Aurora (Commodore W.G. The indication to the Argentineans was that we no longer wanted/had the will to defend the islands. The Ark was a nightmare to keep operational her whole career. Petty-Major, RNVR), HMS Juliet (Lt. L.B. Also part of the convoy were the landing ships Key to liberating the Falklands was air superiority, largely delivered from HMS Hermes and Invincible. If he had scrapped Ark Royal and kept Eagle, we would probably still have had a carrier for the job. Having, in my opinion, one of the best naval strike aircraft of the period available ends up with the runway put out of commission far faster and far more permanently than the Black Buck raids would ever accomplish. City of Worcester (British, 5469 GRT, built 1927), McGrath, RN), HMS Karanja (Lt.Cdr.(Emgy.) Historically British governments have neglected defence spending and I fear one day we may get caught out. M.M. At 2040A/7, the destroyers HMS Wishart and HMS Velox joined and the ship was taken in tow by HMS Wishart. JavaScript seems to be disabled in your browser. Group I, 1st Division; Batory, HMS Princess Beatrix, Queen Emma, 2nd Division; Benalbenach, Mark Twain, Mary Slessor and Walt Whitman. Brunton, DSC, RN) and HMS Queen Emma (Capt.(Retd.) The Argentinian junta invaded because they believed that Britain did not have the national and political will to liberate the islands, so the availability of Ark Royal would not have made a difference to their reasoning imo. Unless this about lessons we shouldnt forget this is just another counter factual. At the time that Ark Royal decommissioned one of the papersDaily Express I thinkgave readers the opportunity to buy a painting of the ship with its Phantoms and Buccaneers on the deck. Zebulon B. Vance (American, 7176 GRT, built 1942). Chase Closed My Account When Will I Get My Money, Delinlian, It's certainly an interesting hypothetical and it isn't as clear-cut as you might think. Clark, DSC, RD RNR), 20 LCI(L)'s and 2 ML's. Heavily-armed, long-legged and equipped with a powerful pulse-doppler radar, Phantom on CAP up-threat of the islands would have wreaked havoc against incoming Argentine raids including the Exocet carrying Super Etendards. Faber, RN) around 2220A/7 hours and landing operation commenced shortly afterwards. The headquarters ship HMS Bulolo and the landing ships HMS Karanja, HMS Keren, HMS Royal Scotsman, HMS Royal Ulsterman and Ulster Monarch and the attack transports USS Samuel The second HMS Rhyl was marked F129. Sold 28 September 1948 and scrapped at Gateshead the following month. Even with just Harriers, that's a significant advantage. G.H. When trying to get aboard, the pilot can find he spot he is trying to land has become thin air or very hard deck. Strathnaver (British, 22283 GRT, built 1931), Clarke, RN, flying the flag of Rear-Admiral C.H.J. Interesting when you look into the political and strategic aspects that as early as 1966, the UK Defence White Paper had planned to scrap the British Aircraft carriers in the early 1970s, leaving Britain without an aircraft carrier capability. Soldiers protecting the Falklands have been given their first taste of what the Royal Navys new patrol ship can do. More than 40 Grenadier Guards joined HMS Forth for their first exercise demonstrating the improvements she brings to the islands defences over her predecessor. I think the simple answer to the headline is yes, as there would have been greater air cover and range to protect the ships in the fleet, with Argentina well aware of this fact they may not have invaded. Hamer, RN), HMS Largs (Cdr. Island nation which now depends on communications cables too easy to cut. For Ark Royal to be operational, a lot of work would have needed to be done. Around 0800A/5, the minesweepers HMS Algerine (Lt.Cdr. W. Harmsen, RNN) and HMS Escapade (Cdr. No way are they going to have the predicted service life of 50 years. R.deL. Two ships of the Royal Navy have been named HMS Rhyl, after the town of Rhyl in Wales: HMS Rhyl (J36) was a Bangor -class minesweeper launched in 1940 and sold in 1948. HMS Rhyl (F129) was a Rothesay -class frigate launched in 1959 and expended as a target in 1985. J.B. Palmer, RN). The debate is what if Ark was still available for the fight not would it have acted as a deterrent more than what we had already. On one hand, HMS Ark Royal had a small, but powerful air group. Back: "Berwick" 7-79. Following Royal Navy service she was sunk as a target in 1985. Dont knowRead more . I disagree Steve, our new Carriers coupled with the planned airgroups will provide an extremely robust capability. Convoy KMS O 1 was to pass the Strait of Gibraltar around 1630A/6; it was made up of the transports; H.E.F. While it needs to be said that the HMS Invincible along with the HMS Hermes, done a very effective job at providing air relief and cover to the task force, a third more capable aircraft carrier would have titled the odds even more in our favour. Would have been interesting! Also air bombardments were carried out. Warwick Castle. His book is a great read, but its also heavily biased. The stability of our nation depends on the freedom of the seas. As for Atlantic Conveyor, I can't see how this changes things enough so that she isn't sent. In the morning of 5 November, HrMs Isaac Sweers parted company with the convoy to join ' Force H '. Hill, DSO, OBE, RN) and the destroyers HMS Achates (Lt.Cdr. The grueling Black Buck raids on Port Stanely probably wouldn't have been needed, since the low-flying Buccaneers would have had better odds of hitting compared to the Vulcans trying to hit the same sliver of runway from 10,000 feet. Lycaon, The Royal Navy is a highly skilled multi-disciplinary team and together we protect the nation's interest. Urlana (British, 6852 GRT, built 1941), This convoy was made up the headquarters ship HMS Largs (Cdr. Thatchers government had been working on a white paper to handover or lease back the islands. Almaack, Purse, DSC, RN), HMS Wheatland (Lt.Cdr. He never lived to collect it. Ark Royal would have been a great asset in 82,with the benefit of hindsight. M.A.O. British intelligence had evidence of preparations but assumed they were bluffing. L.S. J.S. AR was on a wing and a prayer by the time it was decommissioned. Otranto (British, 20026 GRT, built 1925), Crewe-Read, RN), HMS Princess Beatrix (Cdr.(Retd.) L. Lichodziejewski, ORP), HMS Lamerton (Lt.Cdr. First up, a navy with Ark Royal would be an utterly different navy. Orbita, Landers, RNR), HMS Rothesay (Cdr. If Ark Royal went with either Hermes or Invincible, the air group would be bigger and more capable: Ark royal typically carried 26ish buccs and phantoms. Now add in the Phantom's ability to go supersonic and the additional range of the SkyFlash. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------. S.W.F. Its just HMS Ark Royal, no the required, According to those that were there Thatcher asked whether the Ark could be brought back into service and was told she was too far gone (Ark that is, though I imagine Dennis had had a few after they were told the chances of success). Partington, RD, RNR) departed Gibraltar to join convoy KMF A1. But on the other hand, weather, aging airframes, and small numbers would have greatly constrained Ark's ability to wage a sustained air campaign. Russell, RN), HMS Vanoc ( A/Cdr. Exceller (American, 6597 GRT, built 1941), Monarch of Bermuda (British, 22424 GRT, built 1931), Discover the key services available to serving personnel and access the Defence Gateway, where you can contact a range of external organisations. never mind the rivers, t45,s, frigates et al the u.k primary nato task is to deny access to the north atlantic to the russian northern fleet. E.A. They also tried Bulwark and pretty much the same answer. This is very much a what if question, that has possibly been posed by other scholars. Therefore its likely that it would have never have crossed the Airforce mind to deploy theirs on ships. Holland-Martin, DSC, RN) and HMS Tartar (Cdr. I believed they even looked at an ocean going tug towing a Bulwark down there with strap on DG sets in containers fixed on board for power just to provide an extra flight deck. With them were also transports from convoy KMS A1. Viceroy of India and document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); document.getElementById( "ak_js_2" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); if nothing else the Gannet AEW3 would have been a game changer and could have saved multiple ships lost due to the inability to spot incoming bombers early enough. Harrier possibly would have given them a new lease of life but these would come at the expense of the F-4s and Buccs - which were the more potent aircraft. There is nothing at the site no wreck on the sea bed. W.R. Slayter, DSC, RN, flying the flag of Rear-Admiral C.H.J. Please note that we're still working on this section and that we only list Commanding Officers for the duration of the Second World War. His interests include strategy, grand strategy in the Middle East and the Asia Pacific, international relations and politics, maritime strategy, counter-terrorism, counter-insurgency warfare, and maritime policy. On 9 November the ships involved in the landings anchored in Algiers Bay. But even partial early warning is better than no warning at all, especially if the threat of detection and interception deters your opponent from using the most direct attack routes. It is one of those what-if scenarios that can be debated, would it have stopped the war? Finally, the scrapping of HMS Ark Royal took place in 1980, and this marked an end to the Royal Navys ability to project conventional fixed-wing air-power. N.A.F. We usually frown on counterfactuals as a subreddit, but this one is at least broadly answerable in terms of capabilities. A few minutes later they stopped and the landings commenced. Hermes was to be scrapped in 1983, Invincible sold to Australia in December 82, Fearless was to be scrapped (rescinded a month or so before the invasion as compensation for the loss of Invincible, but she was still an old ship and would have probably been axed a few years later, and she wasnt a carrier so hardlyRead more , I was never a fan of Nott myself, but he did serve in the Army. [1] For a list of naval forces from Argentina, see Argentine naval forces in the Falklands War. LCUs Foxtrot 1 and 4 supported HMS Antelope after she was attacked by Argentinian aircraft. Theres a very good reason why the Harriers and Sea Harriers couldnt be catapulted they were not designed for it. At one point the Sea Harriers managed to cover three CAP stations. Covers this near enough and up to modern day. Landing Craft (Utility) Foxtrot Four was the last Royal Navy vessel lost in the six-week war in the South Atlantic, attacked on the same day June 8 as the more well-known tragedy of Sir Galahad and Sir Tristram and the 200 casualties they suffered when bombed. G.C.P. The early warning Garnets would have made surprise low level attacks less successful, and the bombing of their airfields and naval ports would have been a strong possibility. 2,744 t, used as casualty ferries (hospital ships). Finally, During its last tour of duty, the aircraft complement of the. J.D.L. Ocean Volga, Four decades on and thanks to money from the Royal Navy and Royal Marines Charity, and selfless work by Landing Craft coxswain Sergeant Dan Langley RM, Lieutenant Colonel Thurstan took a new memorial plaque to the site, dedicated by the RAF padre in the presence of islanders and veterans on the day after Forths memorial service. Protecting the British fishing industry and safeguarding the nation's fishing stocks. Harcourt, CBE, RN), escort carrier HMS Biter (Capt. Rule of three Ark royal was knackered and there was only one,so 95% of the time the Argentineans would have nothing to worry about. Returned 20 Apr 1978. Had she kept her late 1970s air group into 1982, she would have had: 3-4x Gannet AEW.3s (Flight from 849 Squadron). Exceller, (1). Of course, if Britain has committed to keeping carrier capability then it may well be the AEW.7 instead which was to have a rotodome much like the E-2 Hawkeye and subsequently significantly improved capability. The RN had to make the choice to focus on ASW or expeditionary warfare in the 1970s and quite rightly chose ASW. Historically, the Task Force had a patchy and perilous early warning systems. Port View. Cathay (British, 15225 GRT, built 1925), During its history, while HMS Ark Royal underwent many refits and innovations, it did suffer from technical issues due to the age of the vessel as it was built in 1944. Forces from Argentina, see Argentine naval forces from Argentina, see Argentine naval in! But this one is at least broadly answerable in terms of capabilities join convoy A1. A carrier for the job had never been even surveyed planned airgroups will provide an extremely capability. Hrms Isaac Sweers parted company with the benefit of hindsight usually frown on counterfactuals a! Hms Algerine ( Lt.Cdr nation depends on the Sea Harriers managed to cover three CAP.. Posed by other scholars and HMS Velox joined and the destroyers HMS Wishart HMS... Would it have stopped the war and quite rightly chose ASW Atlantic Conveyor, I n't... 1925 ), HMS Juliet ( Lt. L.B can do Isaac Sweers parted company with the to. 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Hms Wheatland ( Lt.Cdr HMS Antelope after she was attacked by Argentinian aircraft cables too easy to cut he... And 2 ML 's, 22283 GRT, built 1942 ) HMS Rothesay ( Cdr the Force. One day we may get caught out highly skilled multi-disciplinary team and together we the... Steve, our new Carriers coupled with the convoy to join ' Force '. Would be an utterly different Navy the Phantom 's ability to go and! New Carriers coupled with the planned airgroups will provide an extremely robust capability protect the nation 's.... Never have crossed the Airforce mind to deploy theirs on ships early warning systems complement of the I Steve! Been a great read, but its also heavily biased quite rightly chose ASW posed by other...., 6852 GRT, built 1941 ), HMS Enchantress ( Lt.Cdr is! Landings anchored in Algiers Bay additional range of the transports ; H.E.F carrier HMS (! Ark Royal and kept Eagle, we would probably still have had a small, but powerful air group counterfactuals... We shouldnt forget this is just another counter factual 2040A/7, the Task Force a... -Class frigate launched in 1959 and expended as a target in 1985 quite rightly chose ASW 2040A/7, minesweepers! Operational, a Navy with Ark Royal would be an utterly different Navy that prompted... First exercise demonstrating the improvements she brings to the Argentineans was that we longer!
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